MarkT

Two approaches to discourse about God: Apophatic / Catophatic

{ 9:43 AM, 20/9/2008 } { Posted in God } { 0 comments } { Link }

1. The apophatic approach acknowledges the unknowability, transcendence and inexpressibility of God and of all experience of God.

2. The catophatic approach is based on what can be said about God but always as metaphor or analogy.

The two approaches compliment each other.

Exodus 3:14-15 (JPS Tanakh: 1985)

{ 9:40 AM, 20/9/2008 } { Posted in God } { 0 comments } { Link }

And God said to Moses, "Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh". *[a] He continued, "Thus shall you say to the Israelites, 'Ehyeh' *[b] sent me to you. And God said further to Moses, "Thus shall you speak to the Israelites: the LORD, *[c] the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob,
has sent me to you.

This shall be My name forever.

This My appellation for all eternity.

*[a] Meaning of Hebrew uncertain; variously translated: "I Am That I Am"; "I
Am Who I Am"; "I Will Be What I Will Be"; etc.
*[b] Others "I Am" or "I Will Be."
*[c] The name YHWH (traditionally read Adomnai "the LORD") is here
associated with the root hayah "to be".

Exodus 3:14-15 (JPS Tanakh: 1985)

ONE GOD - What does that mean?

{ 9:34 AM, 20/9/2008 } { Posted in God } { 0 comments } { Link }

Trinitarianism ... the belief that there are three to the essence of God, is a belief accepted by all contemporary Christians. Judaism strongly disagrees. It stands firm in maintaining that God is One - without partners, self-sufficient, and indivisible. ... One is not Three and Three is not One. ... Judaism has serious difficulties with a number of trinitarian major premises:

- God is not human. Man is not God. The Christian doctrine of the Incarnation ... goes against the fundamental Jewish belief that God is incorporeal - that He has no body and cannot be affected by any of the weaknesses of the flesh. To say that God died then died on the cross seems incomprehensible. God cannot die - just as He does not "live" in human form.

- To worship Jesus as God is to violate the commandment that "You shall have no other gods before Me." ... "And the man Moses ..." (Numbers 12:3). God was careful to delineate the difference between Himself and human beings. Jews can't accept that a man or woman could possibly be God.

- Most disturbing of all to the Jewish idea of monotheism in the Trinity is that Judaism recognises no intermediary between God and man. The first of the Ten Commandments, "I am the LORD your God," is written with a Hebrew word that implies a singular "your." God speaks to every person directly
and says, "I am accessible to you without any middle man." For the Jew, this means that he has an open line to God Himself. Praying to the Son to get to the Father goes against one of the major beliefs of Judaism, as later codified by Maimonides: "To Him and to Him alone shall you pray directly."
A Jew belives that no-one else is supposed to talk for him, live for him - and certainly not die for him.

from Rabbi Benjamin Blech "The Complete Idiot's Guide To Understanding Judaism" (Alpha:2003) pp. 9-10

LORD & GOD - The Jewish View

{ 9:32 AM, 20/9/2008 } { Posted in God } { 0 comments } { Link }

TWO NAMES: TOUGH LOVE

There ae times when God is referred to as Adonay - the word usually translated as "Lord." Other times, He is called Elohim - the word translators render as God.

Stranger still, the very quote from the Bible that Judaism requires to be recited twice a day as an affirmation of monotheism mentions both names in the very same sentence. ...

Sh'ma Yisroel Adonay Elohenu Adonay Echod - Hear O Israel the Lord our God, the Lord is One. ...

God has two main ways in which He relates to the world, He is either Adonay or Elohim - Lord or God. When we perceive Him as kind, merciful and compassionate, we say, "Thank the good Lord." ... In Hebrew you would praise Adonay. But let something bad happen ... and you exclaim, "Oh my
God!" The name Elohim, God, is used to describe moments when God relates to us in ways we consider strict, harsh, judgememntal, and perhaps even cruel.
..

FATHER AND MOTHER

... in Hebrew the name for Lord, Adonay, has a femine ending. A merciful God is more like a Mother. The Hebrew for God, Elohim, has a masculine ending. it suggests that God is also a father. The Jewish concept of Lord / God is a combination of male and female attributes. The Almighty is a He
and a She, harmonising the best of both sexes so that human beings can be blessed not only with a Father, but also a Mother, in Heaven.

from Rabbi Benjamin Blech "The Complete Idiot's Guide To Understanding Judaism" (Alpha:2003) pp.14-15

God doesn't require a human sacrifice

{ 10:25 AM, 29/8/2008 } { Posted in God } { 0 comments } { Link }

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Go and learn what this means, 'It's mercy I desire instead of sacrifice.' Matthew 9:13 (Scholars Version)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Obviously, God doesn't require a human sacrifice of a bloke called Jesus in order to forgive sin ... or is Jesus lying in this verse?

A Trinity of finite gods

{ 10:21 AM, 29/8/2008 } { Posted in God } { 0 comments } { Link }

1 + 1+ 1 = 3 not 1

Furthermore each must be a FINITE god.

The father is the not the son.
The father is not the holy spirit.
The son is not the father.
The son is not the holy spirit.
The holy spirit is not the father.
The holy spirit is not the son.

IF
any of the father, son or holy spirit is INFINITE
THEN
that part of the "trinity" must INCLUDE the other two in order to be
infinite
HOWEVER
the man-made doctrine of the trinity says that none of the trinity is the
same as the other
THEREFORE
each member of the trinity must be FINITE because they each exclude the
other two parts of the trinity.

You have one finite father + one finite son + one finite holy spirit = the trinity of three finite gods.

This is much different that ONE INFINITE GOD.

Infinite journey into God

{ 10:27 AM, 22/3/2008 } { Posted in God } { 0 comments } { Link }

One's journey in God is a never ending journey of finite person entering into infinite God. The infinite One God has no end therefore our journey in knowing him has no end. Becoming a Christian is not the endpoint. It is a starting point in the inifinite journey.

Can God die?

{ 4:28 PM, 24/1/2008 } { Posted in God } { 0 comments } { Link }

Can God DIE??????

What can God DIE from?????

Can one really CRUCIFY GOD?????

If God DIES then who runs the universe for the three days that God is dead?????

Colossians 1:17 says "in him [Jesus of Nzareth] all things hold together"

SO .....

IF

Jesus of Nazareth is God

AND

Jesus of Nzareth holds all things in the universe together

THEN

when Jesus of Nzareth dies the whole of the universe should fall apart.

Why didn't it???????????????????????????????

WHO rose Jesus from the dead?

HIMSELF?????

How does a dead god raise himself from the dead??????

##########################################################

GOD raised him [Jesus of Nazareth] up, loosing the pangs of death, because
it was not possible for him [Jesus of Nazareth] to be held by it. - Acts
2:24

But if the Spirit of Him [GOD] who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you,
He [GOD] who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal
bodies through His Spirit [GOD] who dwells in you. - Romans 8:11

GOD, who raised him [Jesus of Nazareth] from the dead. - Colossians 2:12
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God is not an angry old bugger

{ 4:26 PM, 24/1/2008 } { Posted in God } { 0 comments } { Link }

God is not a sadistic psychopath that murders his son and must have a physical thing from His creation (blood, gore and guts) in order to forgive part of His creation (humans).

God forgives because God is God and God is love.

God is not an angry old bugger in the sky bound by man-made rules in a book.

John Lennon on God

{ 4:08 PM, 24/1/2008 } { Posted in God } { 0 comments } { Link }

... It's the same with the Christians (so called). They're so busy condemning themselves and others, or preaching at people, or worse, still killing for Christ. None of them understand, or trying in the least, to
behave like a Christ. It seems to me that the only true Christians were (are?) the Gnostics, who believe in self-knowledge, iu.e., becoming Christ themselves, reaching the Christ within. Christ, after all, is Greek for light*. The Light is the Truth. All any of us are trying to do is precisely that: Turn on the light. All the better to see you with, my dear. Christ, Buddha, Mohammed, Moses, Milarepa, and other great ones spent their time in fasting, praying, meditation, and left "maps" of the territory of "God" for all to see and follow in our own way.

~~~~~~~

* We all recognise that the accepted translation of Christ is "the anointed one." We, however, we told that in the original Dead Sea Scrolls it is revealed that the true translation of Christ is "light," which to us made more sense. - Y.O.L.

From John Lennon "Skywriting By Word of Mouth" (Harpoer & Row: 1986) p. 35

A Visual God

{ 3:56 PM, 24/1/2008 } { Posted in God } { 0 comments } { Link }

One can VISUALISE Jesus of Nazareth - he is a finite Jewish rabbi! One CANNOT visualise the INFINITE One God. Whenever one tries to visualise the infinite One God one is ALWAYS
visualising an idol LESS than the One God. One can NEVER visualise the infinite. The more one understands this the more one is filled with awe for this One God.

This is the Jews' gift to humanity - the realisation of the infinite One God.

THE HIGHEST RATINGS

{ 1:25 PM, 23/2/2007 } { Posted in God } { 0 comments } { Link }

"Church", Bible and Messiah all seem to rate higher than God in the Fundamentalist Dark Age.

WHY?

God cannot be seen or fully understood as God is transcendent spirit. God cannot be controlled by anyone.

"Church", Bible and Messiah are handy finite idiols that can be contained and controlled.

Douglas Cowan and Sacred Terror

{ 4:33 PM, 21/2/2007 } { Posted in God } { 0 comments } { Link }

From http://theofantastique.blogspot.com/search/label/Sacred%20Terror

This was a great article! Some highlights ........

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Douglas Cowan and Sacred Terror

....

Doug Cowan: Quite apart from film studies, which asks a very different set of questions, the three most obvious perspectives are dismissal, theological, and psychological. That is, there are those who simply dismiss cinema horror as having any redeeming or revelatory value at all. There is very little one can say about these people, other than to point out that they are simply wrong-if for no other reason than that horror is one of the most robust and resilient of cinema genres. That doesn't mean that every horror movie is worthwhile; many are appallingly bad. But as Ado Kyrou once said, "I urge you to look at 'bad' films; they are sometimes sublime." It means, more importantly, that millions of people consume horror cinema, and we have to wonder about the attraction, about the need that is either reflected or filled by those products, about the fear these films reveal.

....

TF: I noted in the first chapter of your book that you reference a Christian missiologist who makes the unfortunate statment that "other than pornography, horror is the film genre least amenable to religious sensibilities." Why do you find this all too common attitude reflected in
people who might represent conservative expressions of more traditional religions? Is it a fear of horror somehow tearing down religion, or a fear of cultural decline through horror's popularity?

Doug Cowan: This is precisely the problem of theological normativity closing down the vision with which one might look at the world around them. In many ways, conservative Christians (though they are hardly alone in this) live their lives enmeshed in a web of fears. This is implicit, for example, in my first two books, on the Christian countercult and on conservative reform movements in mainline Christianity. Fear drives the need to confront deviance and enforce conformity. It strikes me as absurd to think otherwise.

Religion in the late modern period needs no help from horror films to do itself a disservice in any number of ways. Religious support for the war in Iraq, for example, is more horrifying to me than any horror movie. I think, though, that horror films (like some song lyrics) become a cheap and easy lightning rod to express one's outrage, when there are far bigger, far
scarier problems we can be concerned about. George Bush, for example, and his current World Tour of Terror, global warming, the possibility of nuclear war (whether driven by nation states or terrorist organizations), did I mention George Bush? I recall a poll conducted by a British horror magazine many years ago that said something like 37% of men would rather be trapped on a desert island with Freddy Krueger than with Margaret Thatcher. That
said, I think that horror films are significant cultural artifacts that express what we are afraid of, not some sort of mind-control program valorising the acts we often see included in them.

TF: Wrapping up our foundation before moving to your book, why do you find conservative evangelicals so opposed to horror, often equating it with evil and the occult?

Doug Cowan: I go back the same answer. In the context of human religious experience and expression, it's a very narrow, very restricted theological vision-one to which they are entitled, since it is their version of the "unseen order," but narrow nonetheless. (I can see a number of readers spooling up Matt 7:13, as we speak!) The problem, though, comes when
conservative Christians arrogate to themselves the right to act as moral, ethical, and theological arbiters for the rest of us-based solely on their interpretation of that unseen order. Returning to my point about living enmeshed in a web of fears, conservative Christians are an excellent example of the basic theoretical principle informing the book: sociophobics. That
is, the principle that what we fear, how we fear, and how we are expected to act in the face of fear are socially constructed concepts. Of course, there are physical sensations that we share in common; of course, there are psychological aspects to fear. The problem is that studies have been limited to these, by and large. I am trying to broaden the playing field, to understand the relationship between religion and fear in a very different way.

As Petronius said, "It is fear that first brought gods into the world"-an insight that was explored in depth both by Rudolf Otto and Sigmund Freud, but which has, unfortunately, been ignored of late..... In all kinds of ways, conservative Christians are taught to fear an amazing array for things, and have those fears reinforced in a striking variety of ways. Consider, for example, the Tennessee trial in the late 1980s, dubbed by the media "Scopes II." That all started because a Tennessee housewife who spent a good portion of her time listening to fundamentalist Christian radio programming became terrified that "secular humanism"-that boogeyman of the New Age-had found its nefarious way into to the sanctuary of her daughter's school.
...
Cinema horror is far too often simply dismissed, as though who both produce and consume it have no voices worth hearing in the discussions and debates about the unseen order. This is ridiculous, quite frankly. I think, though, that Christian theologians (at least) will learn most only when they learn to bracket any claim to normativity in their assessment of other religious
traditions. That is, they need to stop arrogating to themselves the right to decide who is "properly religious" and who isn't. Of course, there are theologians who do this admirably (Hans Kung comes to mind in this regard, and Matthew Fox), and I don't mean to generalise across the spectrum of Christianity. But, in the evangelical/ fundamentalist streams, one is
hard-pressed to find more than a handful who take the religious experiences of others seriously and on their own terms, that is, without some hidden proselytic agenda.

HEAVEN - What is it?

{ 8:41 AM, 6/1/2007 } { Posted in God } { 0 comments } { Link }

> JtB was asking return (not repent, tshuva or return) and he was calling
> people back to the laws of moses.

That is an interesting point. Christians often translate these words as "turn around" as in change one's ways but not as a return to God's way via the Torah. The difference is slight but significant.

> This is an open question ... was jtB saved?
>
> The question is "does your model of salvation allow you to deal with the
> issues raised/ what are the issues? what can be learned? was JtB saved?"
> it is a very unsettling question when you have answers already.
...
> let me phrase another question - if JtB is not in the kingdom of heaven - then
> when he sits at the wedding feast of the bride - he calls himself the
> friend of the groom - so can you say he was not in heaven?

I'm tying to fit this into the Jewish context of the first century CE for otherwise it does not make sense.

If John the Baptist is saved it follows that salvation cannot therefore be merely a belief in certain doctrines nor a matter of "inviting Jesus into your heart" for there is no change in John the Baptist's belief system nor an invitation as above.

John the Baptist followed the two greatest commandments as given by Jesus which are a return to the laws of Moses through the principle of love. I think it is faith / love plus action based upon the law / love principle.

> Are your ideas of heaven under threat? good. A tad too limited perhaps?

What IS heaven?

Jesus prays "Our Father in heaven" yet the One God is infinite and as Paul quotes the pagan poet "In [YAHWEH ... not YAHWEH"S ANOINTED HUMAN MESSIAH] we live and move and have our being" - Acts 17:28

Is heaven the same as the kingdom of God (Mark's gospel) / kingdom of heaven (Matthew's gospel)? Then it is the realm of God's rule.

Is heaven any place where God rules? (Where DOESN'T God rule? I cannot think of any place as God's rule would seem to be absolute.)

Is it a state of communion with God? If we already live and move and have our being in God then it is a matter of acknowledging such a state and acting upon it. (Which would seem to bring us back to faith, law and the love principle)

Is it present or future? Is it after the resurrection of the dead or do we begin dwelling in it now? Is it an ongoing journey?

More questions than answers.

The Father's Will

{ 9:51 AM, 5/1/2007 } { Posted in God } { 0 comments } { Link }

> For the Solution, I look at the High Priestly prayer of Jesus, where He
> prayed that we would know the Father as He Knew the Father, that we
> would be one with the Father as He is one with the Father!

One cannot "not know" God for as Paul correctly quotes a pagan poet "In [YAHWEH ... not YAHWEH"S ANOINTED HUMAN MESSIAH] we live and move and have our being" - Acts 17:28

In Abraham's case faith was demonstrated through works. Love is also demonstrated by works as in Jesus' example of a son asking for a fish but the father gives him a stone.

Tie that then in with .....

Matthew 7:21-23 states "Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father [YAHWEH NOT YAHWEH'S HUMAN MESSIAH] who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"

The will of God would seem to be tied in with:
- Love
- Faith
- Works

This is summarised in .....

He has shown you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God ? Micah 6:8 RSV

God - Some thoughts

{ 5:04 PM, 26/10/2006 } { Posted in God } { 0 comments } { Link }

Every human experiences God in a slightly different way. God is what makes existence possible ... no matter what else you call that cause. An atheist may experience God as "Mother nature" or "mathematics" or "physics" or "life" yet God is much more than even the combination of everyones' experience for the combination of finite experience is still finite but God is infinite.

God DOESN'T exist like we exist. An existing God is the core of theism which Christians like myself reject as there is no evidence for a theistic God. None of the proofs of God's existence work. One either needs to abandon such a theistic God (like atheism) or redefine God (like Liberal Christianity)

This was brought to the fore by the atheist and existentialist Satre who proved that God cannot exist. It was the Christian theologian and philosopher Paul Tillich who realised this problem and attempted a redefinition.

God cannot exist because God underpins all of existence and cannot underpin himself. Existence is a creation of God. God is not a creation of existence.

PARABLE - The Divine Escalator (3)

{ 8:28 AM, 17/8/2006 } { Posted in God } { 0 comments } { Link }

If God is Jesus then the Divine Elevator looks like this.

God = God Snr
Jesus the Christ = God Jnr
Holy Spirit = God III
Heaven = First Floor
Earth = Ground Level
Hell = Basement

The Old Testament

In the beginning God Snr, from the First Floor created heaven (??? - I thought he lived in heaven???) and the earth and God III came down from the First Floor to the Ground Level and hovered over the waters but God Jnr was nowhere to be seen according to Genesis. God Snr came down from the First Floor walked in the Garden of Eden on the Ground Level with Adam and Eve although God Snr is a spirit and cannot be seen. God Jnr and God III were nowhere in the Garden of Eden according to Genesis. The Garden of Eden and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and the tree of life mysteriously vanish from the Ground Level of earth and cannot be seen today ... along with God Snr, God Jnr and God III who apperently all went to the First Floor ... although sometimes God III comes down to the Ground Level upon the prophets and they prophesy ... and God Snr is sometimes comes down from the First Floor to the Ground Level and is viewed as a cloud or burning bush etc. ... but God Snr, God Jnr and God III are firmly back on the First Floor by the end of the Old Testament.

The New Testament

God Snr, God Jnr and God III must have been busy between testaments as the Basement of hell was created by the time of writing Matthew's gospel. God Snr in the First Floor thinks it would be a good idea to send God Jnr to the Ground Level as God Jnr has not been to earth before (his part in the creation of the First Level and Ground Level must have been from the First Floor). God Jnr comes down to the Ground Level and when grown up God III visits him to help him out at his baptism and with miracles etc. God Snr talks from the First Floor at God Jnr 's baptism. God III then goes back to the First Floor to await futher instructions. God Jnr is mudered on a cross. God Snr raises God Jnr from death and helps God Jnr to visit the Basement (first time any God has visited the Basement according to the bible). God Jnr comes up the Divine Elevator to Ground Level but cannot be touched according to his encounter with Mary (Has he travelled to the First Floor and back to Ground Level by the time he sees Thomas and asks Thomas to touch his hands and feet??? ) God Jnr promises to send God III when he goes up the Divine Elevator to the First Floor and sits by God Snr's right hand side waiting for the time when God Snr sends God Jnr to go back down the Divine Elevator to Ground Level and take all the Trew Kristyuns back to the First Floor and send the naughty people to the Basement (also by Divine Elevator). God Jnr sends God III to the Ground Level.

According to the bible the Divine Elevator is very busy in all this. The First Floor is just beyond the blue dome where God Snr peers out through holes in the night time (they aren't really stars up there!) The Basment is below the earth (as the Ground Level is not flat as they supposed this means that hell is in the centre of the earth).

The bible is not a scientific textbook. It has errors. These errors are obvious when one tracks the movement of God Snr, God Jnr and God III on the Divine Escalator.

ONE GOD

{ 7:23 PM, 24/6/2006 } { Posted in God } { 0 comments } { Link }

I am convinced more than ever that there is only One God and that the Old Testament and Jesus of Nazareth have spoken more truly about that One God than Paul. I have been reading parts of the Talmud and The Legends of the Jews and am seeing God more in the midst of life. I also finished "Jewish Spirituality" by Sara Isaacson (Thorsons / Haper Collins) and am about to explore "God 101: Jewish Ideals, Beliefs and Practices for Renewing Your Faith" by Rabbi Terry Bookman (Perigree). More later.